TONY SNOW: Thanks, Karl. This week, Al Gore picked Senator Joe Lieberman as his running mate, and the early returns looked good. Sixty-one percent of the respondents to our latest Fox News-Opinion Dynamics poll call Lieberman a good choice, and press reports describe him as a man of moderation and faith. We'll let you decide, because here to talk about his role in the upcoming presidential campaign is Senator Joe Lieberman.
First question: When you and Al Gore disagree on a policy, doesn't he win?
JOE LIEBERMAN: Yeah, those are -- I know how it works, when he and I disagree, he wins. But -- and we have disagreed on some issues over the years. I think it's a mark of the strength of Al Gore's leadership that he didn't ask for total unanimity from his vice- presidential selection.
And, you know, we've talked about this this week as we've gone along, and he said to me he wants -- my value to him, in part, is my willingness, not dissimilar from Al Gore himself, to look at new ideas, to explore different ways to solve problems, and to argue that out with him. That's been the nature of our relationship for more than a dozen years. He doesn't want me to stop it when he gets to be president and I get to be vice president, but when he makes a decision, I know what the administration policy will be.
SNOW: Is there any policy on which -- you can conceive of where you would say, "Look, I can't just support you on this?"
LIEBERMAN: Not at this time. I'll tell you, the good thing to say here is that though Al Gore and I have had differences of opinion, on most of the important issues facing the country today and in the future, the way we continue our economic prosperity, how do we keep America strong in the world, how we protect the environment, prescription drug coverage, Medicare, patient bill of rights, we agree.
And I guess even more important is that we agree on the foundations of those policies. We have similar values; we have similar political approaches to problems over the years. So I think, by and large, I can't imagine a case of really profound fundamental differences, but even if there is, I know -- really not just for politics, but for the Constitution, the vice president has to support the president.
SNOW: So, you know, people who say that there's a big difference between your views and Al Gore's, that's just wrong?
LIEBERMAN: Well, there are some areas in which we differ. We've differed, as you know, on the whole question of school scholarship vouchers for poor children. We've differed on tort reform, for instance. But the differences are not enormous. That is the fact. And, again, we agree on basic principles and on priorities.
SNOW: So you're getting accused of swapping positions. What you're saying is, you didn't change positions, but you're being a loyal running mate?
LIEBERMAN: I'd say this, Tony, that on some of the questions that the Republicans have said I'm dramatically different from Al Gore, I haven't been. Incidentally, I think it's important to say that if you look at Al Gore's record as a member of the House, as a senator, he was quite independent and centrist, as I have been, and very open to new ideas. Let's remember that for the last seven-and-a- half years, he's been vice president, and we've already discussed the role of the vice president.
SNOW: Let's talk about some policies. In the past, you say you have looked at the idea of Social Security privatization, taking a little chunk of that and letting individuals invest. You no longer support that idea. Is that correct?
LIEBERMAN: That is correct. One of the hallmarks of my career in public service has been that I've been open to new ideas. And I'm not going to push an idea away because its source is either conservative or Republican because I'm a moderate Democrat.
But in this case, I was very intrigued by the idea of privatizing part of Social Security. And I spent a lot of time studying it, 1997, 1998 and 1999. And I had colleagues come to me with three different bills asking me if I'd sign them. But every time I got to the end of my road of my inquiry, there was no "there" there. There was no real benefit for the retirees.
And, more important, it required as much as one trillion dollars to get this system started, which would come out of the Social Security fund and jeopardize basic Social Security. So I turned away from it. In 1999, actually, I voted on the floor of the Senate against a sense of the Senate urging personal privatization accounts.
SNOW: So what's a better investment: Treasury bills which is what Social Security uses or a general market fund?
LIEBERMAN: Each is -- you know, a lot of people who have investments, mix their investments, and they have some that are real solid like Treasury bills and some that are in the market. And my vision of it is this way: There are different sources of retirement benefits for the American people, but the base, the floor, is Social Security.
That guarantees and has guaranteed tens of millions of Americans that they won't fall into poverty in their old age. You can't play with that. You can't fool with it. And I think, though Governor Bush has not given us the details of his privatization account, I'm convinced if you need to take a trillion dollars out of the trust fund, then you're going to jeopardize that floor.
In addition to that, you know, people have the right to invest in the market. Al Gore has a great proposal for retirement security accounts plus, which I think we'll add on.
SNOW: OK. Let me as -- so your proposal for reforming Social Security is don't reform it at all?
LIEBERMAN: Let's protect the base, and then let's find other ways through tax incentives, as Al does, to give the average person, the middle class person, the opportunity to build a stock market kind of nest egg to supplement Social Security. I think that's the surest way to do it. And the surplus we've got now allows us to do that.
SNOW: So what you're saying is you understand that for your kids, for my kids, probably for me even, Social Security alone won't cut it?
LIEBERMAN: It may not cut it to make us as comfortable as we want to be. But the important thing is it creates a floor below which you and I -- I think we're privileged -- but most Americans will not fall. And you know, millions of elderly Americans today obviously, and for a generation or two, have not fallen into poverty because of Social Security.
SNOW: Are racial preferences a bad idea?
LIEBERMAN: Racial preferences, quotas, I think, are not a good idea. But the quest for equal opportunity, including affirmative action programs, I think, are a good idea. And, of course, the most important thing to say is that when the economy is humming, as it's been for seven-and-a-half years, then people are working and opportunity is rising.
The quest for equal opportunity is, to me, one of the two great driving impulses and values of American life. The other, obviously, is freedom. And you know, we have a lot of different ways to achieve equal opportunity. Some of the affirmative action programs, I think, have done that pretty well. But quotas don't make it and shouldn't make it.
SNOW: What do you think of Governor Bush? Do you think he's doing the right kind of outreach?
LIEBERMAN: Outreach to ...?
SNOW: Minorities, on behalf of the Republican Party.
LIEBERMAN: Well, look, you know, I'm not going to criticize anybody who seems to be trying to reach out to a broader group in the society. Obviously, minorities and people who are out in the society and wanting to rise up have tended to side, I think correctly so, with the Democratic Party. But, you know, if you looked at the Republican convention, with all respect, the inclusiveness was mostly on the stage, not among the delegates.
This week in Los Angeles, you're going to really see the broad face of America, and this party, the Democratic Party, has clearly been the party not just in cosmetics, but in the reality of programs, including today with the good economy, with a whole series of ways to raise people up -- has been the party of those who are out and trying to get in and up.
SNOW: But isn't it also true that for your convention you have quotas?
LIEBERMAN: Well, I like to think of that as an acceptable affirmative action program which actually works to make our convention delegates much more reflective of the American people than the Republican convention was.
SNOW: Should Al Gore and Democrats return money from Playboy? After all, there's been all this talk about the fund-raiser at the Playboy mansion. If you can't do it at the mansion, should the money itself be returned?
LIEBERMAN: You know, this is -- you could ask this about contributions from any group of people. I think the test of this, in a system in which there is disclosure of contributions, is what do you do about it? I mean, how does it affect your leadership or record?
And the contributions, as I've heard them described from the folks at Playboy, are very small in the context, $5,000 or $6,000, in the context, unfortunately, of hundreds of millions of dollars being spent by both parties this year.
So it's pretty clear that Al Gore wasn't affected by those contributions, or he wouldn't have been as strong...
SNOW: So they shouldn't give them back?
LIEBERMAN: I don't think so. He wouldn't have been as strong as he has been in wanting to separate himself from this fund-raiser that was going to occur at the Playboy mansion.
SNOW: He's criticized big industry including big pharmaceuticals and big insurance. And of course, you're the top recipient of insurance money in the Senate, the number two in pharmaceuticals. Will you continue to get contributions from them in your Senate bid this year?
LIEBERMAN: Well, we'll see.
SNOW: Will you accept it?
LIEBERMAN: Sure, I will. There's probably no accident there. I mean, it happens -- of course, I've been the senator from Connecticut, and there's a large insurance industry presence and a pharmaceutical industry presence, and these are reputable industries.
But you've got to look at my voting record. And you know, while I appreciate the support, it hasn't bound me. For instance, I voted for the patient bill of rights to give doctors and patients the opportunity to sue insurance companies, managed care companies, because I don't think the insurance company position is right.
On pharmaceuticals, I've been for and voted for the Medicare coverage of prescription drugs that the pharmaceutical companies don't want. So I'm not exactly -- what is the old expression? -- their running dog? Is that what they used to say?
(LAUGHTER)
SNOW: Did George Bush and the Republicans play into your hands by talking so much about Bill Clinton implicitly and explicitly?
LIEBERMAN: Well, I think the Republican campaign so far has been quite remarkable in that regard, Tony, which is that the Bush-Cheney ticket seems to want to run against a guy who's not on the ballot this year, which is Bill Clinton. And we're about the future.
They seem to be about the past. We're saying that we're the ticket, Al Gore and I, that can carry on the great economic times which Vice President Gore was at the heart of. But the personal mistakes that President Clinton made are history.
And it's obviously -- and, really, it's unfair to try to link those to Al Gore and certainly me. Al Gore had nothing to do with those. I mean, it's about the same as criticizing the Bush-Cheney ticket for Iran-Contra. It's over. And let's talk about what each ticket is going to do for the future.
SNOW: So no more talk about Dick Cheney's voting record?
LIEBERMAN: Well, you might talk about it, just to ask him, but he's running this year. That's the difference. Ask him where he is on some of those votes that he cast in the '80s that seem to be so far from mainstream America.
I mean, Al Gore and I have sat this week, and we're going to really stick to it. This is not going to be a campaign of personal attacks. George Bush and Dick Cheney seem to me to be able and decent men, but they've got a record, and they've got plans for the future.
Ours are very different, and I'm convinced ours are just so much better for the American people that I think we've got to make that case.
SNOW: All right. Senator Lieberman, thanks for joining us this morning.
LIEBERMAN: Tony, thank you. It's been a pleasure.
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